tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC July 30, 2014 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT
what they want to hear. thank you. >> that is all in for this evening. the rachel maddow show starts right now. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour, this is the picture that you may have imagined in your mind before today, you never saw it before today. before prosecutors unveiled it today in open court in richmond, virginia. that is the then governor of virginia, conservative republican family values guy bob mcdonnell. next to him is his wife whose name is maureen. she's in the passenger seat. and that, the big vehicle there, that is not the mcdonnell family's ferrari, it's a ferrari that belongs to a wealthy virginia businessman who let governor mcdonnell drive the ferrari for free for use at the lake they were staying at.
also a range rover he had delivered to the vacation for the use of one of the governor's daughters. also, delivered to the home for the use of the governor was the white ferrari. the washington post last year published this photo of the white ferrari parked in front of the governor's mansion in virginia. you see, there's the car in the drive way, you can also see the sort of tell tale yellow pinked of the executive mansion. that's the car in front of the governor's mansion. the question of how the ferrari got to the governor's mansion that day has been a bit of a question. the governor's explanation before today was that that ferrari had never been loaned to him free of charge. it's use was not provided to him as a gift. he was actually only driving the ferrari that day as a favor to a guy. this is the statement the governor put out last year. when the news about him driving the white ferrari came out in the washington post. the spokesman said as a favor to
the businessman the family drove one of johnny williams' cars to the lake house. and drove the ferrari back to richmond. there was no recreational use of vehicles, the spokesman said, the family was simply helping mr. williams get one car to his smith mountain lake house and return another to richmond. there was no recreational use. this guy needed help moving his cars around. bob mcdonnell is an excellent valet. need anything moved? on day three of the corruption trial today, the businessman who provided the ferrari and paid for the lake house vacation and the cape cod vacation and the florida vacation and bought the family iphones and golf shoes and golf clubs and handed over $70,000 to the governor's real estate company and $50,000 to the governor's wife and $10,000
to one of the governor's daughters. and 15,000 to the other governor's daughter for her wedding. the guy that bought the engraved rolex for the governor. that business man took the stand in the governor's corruption trial in richmond. and he said right off the bat that all of that stuff and all of that cash that he gave to the governor and his family, those were not the product of a friendship. he said, actually, he saw himself as being in a business relationship with the governor. this was a business relationship, i needed his help. the governor was in the position to help secure state sponsored research. the businessman needed the office of the governor of virginia to confer credibility on his products. i know he controls the medical schools, so i needed his help with the testing, the medical testing. those were designed to help this
businessman obtain state help. from his perspective it was a business relationship. he wanted official acts from the state of virginia, in exchange for luxury goods and cash provided to the governor and his family. >> as to the ferrari specifically, turns out the governor was not actually just doing a favor of moving the cars around for the businessman. it was not the case that the ferrari conveniently happened to be at the lake house when the governor was staying there, and it needed moving to richmond so the governor decided to help his friend out. that had been the governor's explanation. they had the official governor's spokesman issue that. that is not what happened. not at least according to the court proceedings this week. the court heard testimony today about how the businessman had to have an employee of his company drive the ferrari to the vacation house specifically so it would be available for the governor to use on his vacation. jurors were shown an invoice for
a limo service that the company had to hire to pick up the employee after he had dropped off the car. it wasn't just there. you were helping him -- this corruption trial in richmond is amazing. the pros kugsz showed the jury pictures of the credit card scanners of the cash registers, at the pro shop and the restaurant. at the golf club where the governor accepted thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars of free stuff from this businessman. the businessman wouldn't play golf, but the governor most of the time would turn up with his sons and have the golf club have everything put on the businessman's tab. he showed the jury pictures of the credit card scanners at the club and asked the golf club manager on the stand in all the times he golfed here and ate here, did he ever ask if he could pay for anything? did he ever try to pay for anything? like say with a credit card? in this place where people pay? did he ever ask if he could?
the answer was no, he never tried to pay, not once. just put it on johnny's tab. it's been amazing stuff. it's amazing enough, that style weekly just published a cutout paper doll activity book for following along with the trial. paper doll evidence play time. the ferrari on its side, and the rolex right next to the wedding catering, under the tower of the businessman's supplements. i'm bob mcdonnell. this is my ferrari, it's just a favor. the corruption trial of bob mcdonnell has been incredible. so far, today was day three. as the national coverage of this corruption trial picks up, there is something sort of wrong about it. at least unexamined about it. here's what i mean. it was january 21st of this year, when the governor and his wife were indicted. they were indicted on 14 felony
counts of corruption. that day bob mcdonnell and his wife -- they proclaimed their innocence. keep that image in mind right there, that ends up being important. this was january 21st, three days later, the mcdonnell's had their official court appearance. they arrived in court that day for their official arraignment, about a week and a half later it was back to the court for the mcdonnells for a pretrial hearing, there they are again, arriving hand in hand. a few weeks later, there was another court hearing for them, to see if they could get any charges dismissed, there's bob and maureen arriving hand in hand. all these public appearances over the course of the last few months starting with indictment day and all these appearances, bob mcdonnell and his wife are standing together presenting a unified front. and that is what made this scene on monday of this week all the more remarkable. monday was the first day of the trial.
the first day of the bob mcdonnell and maureen mcdonnell corruption trial. look, what's different? there's bob mcdonnell arriving at the courthouse all alone, without his wife by his side. because she entered the courthouse separately, a few moments ahead of her husband. they are arriving and leaving the courthouse separately, not being seen together at all. that's how it's been all week. here they are again, arriving today at the courthouse 40 paces apart. this is what they are doing now in public now that the trial has started. that fact i think is part of the key to understanding the salaciousness of the headlines you've been seeing about the bob mcdonnell trial. the headlines are all like this this week. ceo became maureen mcdonnell's favorite playmate trashy mail from britain as always. maureen mcdonnell's lawyer claims her marriage was over, and she had a crush on wealthy
donor who lavished her with gifts. ex-virginia governor's broken marriage. wife's crush on government star witness. the indictment, the allegations from prosecutors have been out there for months now. now that we are having the trial, now that the defense has started, what has stolen the show about the defense is this designed for headlines assertion from the defense that the mcdonnell's marriage was broken, and maureen had a child like crush on this businessman who the mcdonnell's are accuses of helping in exchange for tens of thousands of dollars in gifts. the defense lawyer said in court, maureen mcdonnell was angry. she hated governor mcdonnell. defense council told the jurors, maureen and johnny had a relationship some would consider improper for two people not married. the defense lawyer said at one point the governor wrote a long e-mail to his wife begging her to help save the marriage.
mr. mcdonnell planned to read the e-mail in court. bob has agreed to open up his marriage and his life to you. honestly none of this is any of our business. if a family or a couple is having trouble. if a marriage is in trouble. if it doesn't have public policy consequences, it is none of our business. even when the people involved are public figures. not unless there are some hypocrisy consequences. the defense strategy in the corruption trial is going to be there marriage is the key. they're going to make the personal matter of the quality of their marriage the centerpiece. the stuff about the crush and the loveless marriage and all the rest of that, that's being raised by the defense council for the mcdonnell's, this is how they're going to keep the governor out of jail.
that's called corruption. give me something of personal value to me, and in exchange i'll give you a little something from the government. the government of which i am an official. as a defense to that corruption allegation. it is tabloidy and exploitive for the governor to blame the whole thing on his wife and their alleged personal problems. yes, it feels gross and it gets lots of headlines, legally it makes sense. maureen mcdonnell as first lady of virginia, that's not a job title. she wasn't a public official technically, and she could never have committed an official act of any kind to help the ceo. if there's no official act there's no crime. that strategy, that she took everything defense, i mean, it makes sense, it is undercut by the fact that bob mcdonnell himself did things like ask this guy for a $70,000 loan for his
real estate business. that is their main defense strategy, she did it all, she's not a public official, and so there's no public corruption. there con the have been a corrupt scheme, a corrupt conspiracy between the two of them, there was no two of them. they weren't really a couple. it was her love sick stupidity, he's the victim here, he may not have known any of it was happening. that's their strategy, their legal strategy, which we should have had an inkling of when they all started arriving at their court date separately. that defense that their marriage is on the rocks, she had a crush on somebody else, it does make sense as a legal strategy. what does not make sense is the media helping them with it. to the extent this trial is being covered nationally, so far, it is being covered purely in a tabloid way, right? purely through the lens of catty sexist gossip about the first
lady while bob mcdonnell is cool, calm and collective. that framing is not only sexist and gross, it ignores the fact that bob mcdonnell himself was doing things like setting up meetings for this wealthy donor for the top state health officials. the government is going to have to prove that he's doing those things he did in exchange for the vacation trips and the golf clubs and the ferrari rides, they claim they have the evidence to prove it. if his defense is going to be to blame it on the love sick louis vuitton loving wife, they're doing a wonderful job. the press is bending over backwards to help the legal defense. if makes sense as a legal strategy. but this is an overt strategy, and you are helping one side of this legal case by advancing the strategic story line for them, because you can't resist a
schedule. this is the work schedule between now and the election. there are zero workdays for them in august, 10 workdays for the whole month of september, two days in october and they don't in fact have any sustained period of work at all after tomorrow until at least the end of the year. sweet. but their longest vacation of the year, the more than five weeks they're taking off starts tomorrow, which means we are down to the wire in terms of weather they are going to do anything of substance. today the crowning achievement of the house on the last day before we go tomorrow, was that the house today had authorized a lawsuit against president obama. no democrats voted for it, all but five republicans did vote for it, and the five republicans who didn't, the five republicans who voted no apparently did so because the lawsuit does not go far enough. it doesn't go impeachment far enough. what's interesting, is that
while it was the republicans who voted today to sue president obama, it is the democrats who held a press conference about this vote today, the democrats cannot believe this is how republicans want to spend congress's time. to put a finer point on it, democrats cannot believe their luck that this is how republicans want to spend congress's time. democrats feel like this lawsuit thing shines a spotlight on democrats and the president specifically trying to get stuff done while all the republicans want to do is try to destroy president obama, stop him from doing things. this is a matter, this lawsuit authorization is something that only republicans voted for today. on the house floor today, it was the democrats who basically did cartwheels about it. >> the house of representatives is apparently taking its marching orders from sarah palin. good for us. >> it is unconscionable. that when this do nothing republican congress decided to do something, it's suing the president for doing his job when they refuse to do theirs.
>> i urge each and every one of my colleagues to have the courage -- nothing but courage to impose this resolution, has no place on this floor. >> the fact of the matter is, that the american people are tired of the relentless partisanship that has led the congress to having a lower approval rating than head lice. >> and if you think democrats were excited about this today, about republicans voting to sue the president. if you think democrats were excited about that in congress, check out the excitement today from the democrat who's in the white house. president obama today seemed to have an excellent time talking about this matter in kansas city, missouri. >> some of the things we're doing without congress are making a difference. but we could do so much more, if congress would just come on and help out a little bit. just come on. come on and help out a little
bit. stop being mad all the time. something. something. stop just hating all the time. come on. let's get some work done together. i know they're not that happy that i'm president, but that's okay. come on. i've only. i've only got a couple years left, come on, let's get some work done. you can be mad at the next president. >> president obama enjoying himself today. what can get done by this time tomorrow when they will all be getting on airplanes and heading out of town.
can they do ambassadors, the va, anything on immigration or the border. what reasonably, realistically could happen? joining us now is chuck todd, the host of the daily rundown, it's great to see you, thanks for being here. >> good evening, rachel. >> reasonably, what might happen before they all leave. the ambassadors, the va, anything on immigration? anything. >> the only substantive thing is the va, when you look at it politically, why the va, why can they somehow come together and get this done and nothing else? plitly, both of them are fearful of being labelled anti-veteran, and veterans vote. and it's one of these few groups that both parties think we can't tick them off, so let's at least get this done. a week ago, they looked like they weren't going to be able to get that done. so substantively that's it. this border bill business. the amazing thing about their inability to get this one done,
rachel, is the fact that we're talking. this is financially a drop in the bucket, whether you use the president's number, the senate number, i think it's 2.5 billion, even if you use the house number which is less than a billion, this is unfortunately the way numbers work in our budget, spare change. and they can't even come together on this, on a crisis that everybody agrees is a crisis, there needs to be resources, there has to be more judges, all of things, they're not going to get anywhere close to getting that done. that to me, that is symbolizes just how ridiculously gridlocked this congress is, we're not talking about a lot of money. >> well, question on that, though, in the senate, the senate side on the border, 11 republican senators voted with democrats this morning on a bill to send resources to the border. was i right to be surprised by 11 republicans siding with democrats on this, or was this just some procedural thing? >> i believe this was the procedural version of this, the
fact that they did it, i think we're -- it's been interesting on watching the immigration thing. neither party feels comfortable knowing exactly how immigration will play politically in the midterms, both of them hope it's not an issue either way. republicans are concerned about hispanics, but the hispanic vote somewhat, you're in this midterm election because of where the battle grounds are, you're talking a couple states where it may impact them. democrats in some of these red states that are less diverse, they seem to be afraid of looking like they're not tough enough on the border, there is this sense that nobody wants to do it the folks that did vote to move it on, it's the same vote inside the senate republican party, it's been the loudest about come on, hurry up and do immigration reform. >> suing the president. democrats can't talk about it enough. democrats from the white house and also in congress. so excited about it, we had a
potpourri of things to choose from in terms of looking at them being so excited. they believe this fires up the democratic base. >> they had nothing else to do it, that's right. this is electrifying, they think. >> does it electrify the republican base too? is there evidence that this lawsuit motivates the republican base as much as it motivates democrats? >> it seems to be more about placating the republican base, there's a difference in what they're trying to do. to me this seems to be a little too cute, what boehner's trying to do. he's almost whetting the appetite of some on the right. there is some fringe elements to the republican party that want to go about impeachment. this lawsuit was a political maneuver by boehner to try to keep the impeachment caucus, however big it is, eight, 10, 11, 12 members at bay a little bit, hand them this, and say, we're going to sue the president it it took them a couple weeks to figure out what they were going to sue him over.
they hadn't decided on what issue, which to me made it obvious that this was a political maneuver, if they really were upset about a specific law, they would have said, it's this, it's the way you acted on this law, we're going to sue you. now, on -- this would have made more sense to me politically, if they were going to be suing him on the immigration executive orders. that would have at least made more ideological and principled sense, what they're doing on health care is a bit ham handed and i think obvious this is a political ploy? >> we're trying to placate the people who want impeachment and they ended up exciting them. if you give a mouse a cookie, or -- >> yeah. well, it is. i have a fun stat on the do nothing congress, right? and the actual do nothing congress the infamous one of harry truman, they pass 906 laws. this congress is on pace to do less than any congress ever
before. and the one who broke the record for that was last congress, the one -- and they passed 283 laws. the most famous do nothing congress passed nearly 1,000 laws, okay? this one the last one did 283, this one so far has done 142. on pace for even fewer than the last congress. i think that -- in comparison, we have a new do nothing congress. >> thanks for being here. it's great to have you here. exclusive reporting on the part of american politics where you really do have to face an angry mob, literally on your doorstep, where you live. wondering what that is?
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if you just need a loan, just call a bank. at ge capital, we're builders. and what we know, can help you grow. one of the amazing local details about the federal court ruling on abortion rights yesterday, is what the last abortion clinic in mississippi looks like from the street. the clinic's in downtown jackson mississippi. after they became the last remaining clinic in the state, they painted themselves pink as an act of defiance to show that they were not hiding, they were not ashamed of who they were, and they had no plans to go anywhere, even though the state of mississippi was working to shut them down. they painted themselves bright pepto-bismol pink and hung banners that read, this clinic stays open. when the fifth circuit ruled mississippi was going too far in its efforts to shut down that
clinic. the states cannot shut down every last clinic in the state. the visual of the banners hung on that clinic became not just a slogan or a rallying cry, they became an accurate caption to the photo of that clinic, indeed, this clinic stays open. the activism that has sprung up to try to keep that clinic open has been feisty and scrappy because it's had to be the activists that hung those banners, that support that clinic, they have also occasionally branched out and gone to neighboring states in the deep south and to neighboring clinics that they think also need help. when operation save america went to new orleans this past week for a week long siege of that city and its clinics, some of the people tried to defend clinics in new orleans and make sure they could stay open, had come over from jackson mississippi, it's about a three hour drive. when the radical anti-choice people showed up in new orleans
with their fetus pictures and bull horns to try to intimidate patients from going into one clinic, the pink house defenders from jackson were there at that clinic too. >> do you think the patient is still scared of them? >> definitely, i witnessed that firsthand. >> this is why i know they're scared. a patient is being escorted to her car and she's attacked by a couple anti- -- with their cameras, they're taking photos of her. that's how i know -- >> that's the kind of work from the activists from jackson do at clinics. including a woman named devern gaines. she's been here a few times. last week we spoke with her from new orleans where she had gone, because of the week of intense anti-abortion protests in that city. part of her job is to organize defense at clinics against these types of anti-abortion protests,
so the clinics can stay open in the midst of the anti-abortion protesters, she trains people to act as escorts for patients. she tracks anti-abortion activists who show up at these protests, especially the ones that racked up criminal charges for taking their actions too far. she describes her work as a privilege, but it does make her a target. >> you don't have much more time devern. there is a god calling you. he's calling you -- just turn right around, turn on your heels, 180 degrees and run to jesus. >> he seems to know my name. and the escorts -- i think that's really hard to do, act l
actually. they're extremely aggressive when they find out your name which i do, because i'm a figure, a public figure. they try to use that against you. he's unhappy because we try to bring extremists to justice when they break the law. so that's what we do. i think he'll continue to be unhappy about that. >> radical edge of the anti-abortion movement does have a real and long history of crossing over into violence. and some of the tactics that were seen in new orleans this week have proceeded violent acts elsewhere like one activist distributed wanted style posters that publicized the name and address of local doctors who do abortions. in new orleans they distributed this flyer in the neighborhood of a local new orleans doctor. they held signs pointing at the doctor's home, they used bull horns to deliver their message to her and her neighbors. some went up on to the doctor's porch. you have some images of them here on her front steps.
you see a man who appears to be a plain clothed police officers, asking the protesters to step away from the front door of this private residence. when the officer asked them to leave, they tried to say they were there to deliver the mail. they went to the doctor's home at least twice, they also went to the clinic where she works, they went to her private practice office where she sees patients. the doctor did agree to talk to us, we had to record this video interview with her, only showing her from the waist down. she asked us not to show her face, because of the personal risks she believes she faces. we asked what it was like to be the focus of these protests at the clinic where she works, at her private office, and literally on the front step of her home. >> in the beginning it was frightening, but i felt like the new orleans police department was wonderful. couldn't help but feel a little bit weird and strange. was somebody going to come up at any time? because let's face it, abortion
providers have been killed. and the people who do that, they have no regrets, they think they are doing gods work. >> do you feel threatened personally? >> sometimes, but not most of the time. not most of the time. you asked my age, i'm at the end of my life, and i've come to grips with the fact that if someone wants to shoot me, they will shoot me, and that's it. and i won't mind. i know they put out a flyer where they asked for the community to pray for me. and i know they -- i worked at another clinic. probably what has motivated me more than anything is the people who stand out on the street and scream. >> to continue your work? >> to continue the work. that really motivates me as long as -- and i made that decision very actively in baton rouge.
that if they were out there, i would be inside. and maybe if they weren't out there, maybe at some point i would say -- i don't know. at some point this group that stood on my street and did their best to intimidate me really motivated me. >> the protesters actually motivated her to keep doing her work. she's 74 years old, she told us at her age, she doesn't understand why the protesters are targeting her, when they could just wait her out. >> when many of the protesters left new orleans this past weekend, they went straight to jackson, mississippi, just in time for the federal court ruling that this one last clinic in the state of mississippi will stay open. the protesters did not go to jackson for the ruling, though. the reason they had gone to jackson, four of them had a court date there. they had to go on trial in mississippi, three of them were convicted for the way they had
crossed legal lines and protesting at that clinic in jackson. the clinic they would love to shut down, they have not figured out a way to do it. yesterday it was a federal appeals court holding them at bay, most days it is on the ground anti-anti-abortion volunteers who are forming a physical cadre on the front lines. a first physical line of defense for patients and people who work at these places. a first physical line of defense to protect what is supposed to be a constitution ali protected legal right. but one dark, stormy evening... she needed a good meal and a good family. so we gave her purina cat chow complete. it's great because it has the four cornerstones of nutrition. everything a cat needs for the first step to a healthy, happy life. purina cat chow complete. share your rescue story and join us in building better lives. one rescue at a time.
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sometimes when you report the news for your job, you make mistakes, we hate it when it happens, but it does happen. when a politician comes after us for reporting the truth, the provable and proven truth about that politician, we do not take it back. today a u.s. senator who does not want to live with his true record started attacking those of us who have reported that record. it was really over the top, it happened on tape today and that story's next. thank ythank you for defendiyour sacrifice. and thank you for your bravery. thank you colonel. thank you daddy. military families are uniquely thankful for many things,
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september. most members of congress will use that time off to go home, go back to their districts. most members of congress, but not all. look, rand paul hits road to white house with three-day iowa tour. rand paul, not a senator from iowa, but that is where he's going. rand paul, the national gop front-runner in the 2016 race for the white house will tour iowa from end to end next week, testing his attractiveness to voters in every congressional district here. republican senator rand paul of kentucky really wants to be president. so he's using his summer vacation to tour all over the congressional districts in iowa. he hired one of iowa's top political operatives, staffing up with political operatives in new hampshire. all that 2016 moving and shaking has led not just the iowa press but the beltway press to christen rand paul the republican party's front-runner for the presidential nomination in 2016. amazing.
the most interesting and sort of long-term resonant thing i've ever heard anybody say about running for president in this country from somebody in a position to know was said by the man who ran the john mccain campaign in 2008. he has no reason to tell anything but the truth, and his take on running for president is that a presidential campaign is basically a full body scan. david axelrod calls a presidential campaign an mri for the soul. the idea is in the course of a campaign, everything about you will become known. the scrutiny is so intense and it lasts for so long, if you're planning to get elected president by making people believe something about you that is not true, or by covering up something about yourself that is true, that's just no longer possible. the campaign won't let you.
last october, we reported exclusively on this show about republican senator and presidential hopeful rand paul having a plagiarism paul. rand paul, during a speech in virginia, plagiarized long sections of the wikipedia entry for a movie. due to frequent screening, the only way he can achieve his dream of becoming an astronaut is to become a borrowed -- that's wikipedia. now here's rand paul today. >> plagiarism itself is a bad thing to have done. but once you've done it and you've been caught, the way that you handle the fact that it's been exposed is also an important thing about you. and rand paul, not to his credit, started off by
pretending he had never done this plagiarism. >> i talked about a movie. sit a copyrighted movie by the screen writers. i gave every bit of credit to where that plot line came from. the rest of it is making a mountain out of a mole hill from people who have an ax to grind. >> i give every bit of credit? no, you used somebody else's words without saying they were somebody else's words. that's the definition of not giving credit. but there's the issue of plagiarism and worse possibly, having lied about plagiarism when he got caught for it. but the other issue that's been exposed is the issue of temperament. >> i think i am being unfairly targeted by a bunch of hacks and haters. i'm just not going to put up with people casting aspersions on my personality. i cannot lie down and say people can call me dishonest. i've never intentionally done
so. and like i say, if they keep it up, it would be a duel challenge. but i can do that and hold office in kentucky. >> nobody is hating on you. we're just noticing that you're copying and pasting wikipedia pages. it's not personal, it's your life. it's an issue of honesty and it's happening again on a bigger scale. the uncontested public record is rand paul has raised objections to parts of the civil rights act of 1964 that told private businesses they couldn't anymore deny services to people on the basis of race. that was how lunch counters were desegregated. private businesses were told, yes, you're a private business, but you can't serve only white people. rand paul expressed objections to that specific part of the civil rights act, and he's done
so clearly and repeatedly in 2010. >> would you have voted for the civil rights act of 1964? >> i like the civil rights act in the sense that it ended discrimination in all public domains, and i'm all in favor of that. >> but? >> you had to ask me the but. i don't like the idea of telling private business owners -- i abhor racism, but at the same time, i do believe in private ownership. there's ten different titles to the civil rights act. and nine out of ten deal with public institutions and i'm absolutely in favor of one deals with private institutions and had i been around, i would have tried to modify that. but the other thing about legislation, this is why it's a little hard to say exactly where you are sometimes is that when you support nine out of ten things in a good piece of
legislation, do you vote for it or against it? and i think sometimes those are difficult situations. >> senator paul saying he supported everything in the civil rights act except that one part about forcing private businesses to serve black people, even if they didn't want to. senator paul, even in 2010, didn't want to be talking about this. but he was on the record on the matter. he was pressed on the matter. he was running for senate at the time. and that was the way he chose to explain himself when asked about it. but now rather than explaining he's evolved, changed his mind, he no longer has those objections, he's now insisting that those 2010 interviews never happened and he never admitted to having those views and anybody who says otherwise is a hater and is lying. well, this is earlier today on msnbc. >> i want to ask you, as we're talking about restoring civil rights here. you stirred up a lot of controversy with the 2010 comments. >> who, me? >> you said you had concerns
about the rules for private business while you support most of the civil rights act. >> what i would say is that to be fair to myself, because i like to be fair to myself, i've always been in favor of the civil rights act. so people need to get over themselves writing all this stuff that i've changed my mind on the civil rights act. have i ever had a philosophical discussion about all aspects about it? yeah, i learned my lesson. the liberals will come out of the woodwork and say you're against the civil rights act and a terrible racist. i take great objection to that. in congress, there is nobody else trying harder to get people to back their voting rights and make the criminal justice system fair. so i take great offense to people who want to portray me as something i'm not. >> but why not explain you're evolved on that? >> i was never opposed to the
civil rights act and i've been attacked by half a dozen people on your network trying to say i'm opposed to the civil rights act. so i'm not willing to engage with people misrepresenting my viewpoint on that. because i've never been against the civil rights act. i never said i was against it. so for people to say that really they don't want to have an honest discussion about it. >> i think the honest discussion is that title two and title seven -- >> the honest discussion is that i was never opposed to the civil rights act and when your network does 24-hour news telling the truth, maybe we can get somewhere with the discussion. >> this is a not a side bar. this speaks directly to his viability as a candidate. you cannot base something or try to cover up something that you have said because you don't like the way it sounds. but also, when confronted with
uncomfortable truths about yourself or with criticism, your response should be what the criticism is warranted, not whether or not the person criticizing you is within punching distance. not only is this not presidential temperament, this is not senator -- this is not even play ground temperament in most well-run elementary schools. nobody expects you to be perfect. but nobody expects you to be a petulant person who lies and is threatening imagined adversaries about it. it's not a good look in any one of the congressional districts in iowa, let alone all four of them. if presidential campaigns are like mris, so far the test results really do not look good. now it's time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell." good evening. >> when i was watching the interview today with rand paul, i kept thinking what's rachel going to say? thank you for that.